Earn More as a Web Designer - $2k vs $10k Web Design Projects
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Hoping to get into more premium price points with your web design services and earn more as a web designer
Past Square Secrets Business™ student Emily has been there and is coming back on the channel today for the second time to share exactly what she found goes into being able to charge 10x your prices confidently.
Hint, it has a lot to do with your mindset.
I'll let Emily take it away from here.
Okay, Emily, tell me about what we all want to hear, and that is talk about the identity shifts that we need to make in order to be able to attract these premium clients that we all want.
(Emily:) I think when it comes to attracting premium clients, we tend to attract similar people who have similar qualities as us or similar frequencies in a way. And so, if when you're starting out and say you come from an employee mindset, which just came out of a 9 to 5 job, you're still thinking in that way...
I found the clients I was attracting at the start were very much of a scarcity mindset or also of that kind of 9 to 5 employee mindset or treated me like an employee.
Like, 'Do this, do this, how many hours are you working?'
So that's really interesting and then as I grew in my mindset and shifted in my identity towards more of like a business owner not going by time value so much. I started to attract clients who were more of that kind of mindset and just valued my work as it was, valued the way I think...
So when it comes to attracting premium clients, you also have to think about how they're thinking and are you actually thinking in the way that they're thinking? Right? And I think what really helped me was changing my environment...
So when I first started, I was surrounded by people who were in a 9 to 5 very traditional job... And so that was my input, and I just assumed that everybody thinks that way.
And as I morphed into surrounding myself with more freelancers, with more like digital nomads, I decided to change a little bit. And then again this year and last year, I leveled up a little bit more, surrounding myself with people who have massive businesses and the way they thought was so different, and that really shifted the way I operated and the way I worked in my business, and I suddenly started to attract bigger clients. And I think a lot of it has to do with the people you surround yourself with because you really become those people that you surround yourself with...
And so from a practical standpoint, surround yourself with people of those premium clients that you actually want to attract...
Get really curious, like how are they thinking? You know, how do they value their time? Because they value different things, you know, old you, they don't value just money; they value their time.
And so then you start to shift your offerings; you start to refine your offerings in a way that really aligns with what it is that they actually want.
(Paige:) Interestingly, as I've joined different events or been at masterminds or whatever and you start meeting these people with very different ideas of what money is really. And I met a woman who was charging 100 grand for coaching, and I just thought that's bananas...
But no, for her and her clients, that is totally reasonable and the best money they've ever spent. And I was like, okay, so every time, like there is a wide variety of different levels... If someone's watching this, however, they're like okay, well, I'm not a digital nomad and run my business as I travel the world and everything. And so you get to meet sort of like, you know, more freelancers and other people and everything.
But for someone who's okay, I'm at home, I'm not traveling the world, I'm not hanging out in Bali or Mexico or Portugal... How would you suggest that they start to get these contacts, or start to be around these people so they can start to understand how they think?
Online communities is one, so being part of masterminds or courses that have a really active group in them...
But not people who are at the same level in the same industry, if you know what I mean. You really want a variety; otherwise, you kind of just acknowledge each other is like where you're at, and it's like your problem is my problem, and you're not really growing in a way, right...
So I would even say like the best is when you're investing in a mastermind that's like kind of two steps ahead of where you are, and you're in that room with people online, and maybe they do one or two retreats a year you go and you actually meet people. That's really amazing.
In your local neighborhood, depending on where you are again because I think location really matters; like when I was in the German countryside, I really struggled, like I tried, and I couldn't really find people my sort of vibe. And then now being in Lisbon, it's everywhere. I go to a cafe, I go to a restaurant, and I meet someone interesting, have a conversation, and they run their own business, right? And so I'd say even just like once or twice a year, spend a month in a place that's full of these kinds of people that you want to attract, and then just see it as an investment in that like one month, and then see what comes out of it, make connections.
Talk to me about how specifically did you develop the mindset of someone who is able to charge premium prices and what work exactly did you need to do in order to make that happen...
I think firstly, we also have to define what is a premium price because when people might be like 3k for something, or it’ll be 5k or 6k for other people. For some people, it might be a hundred.
For some people, it's like, 'Oh, you're only charging 10k; that's nothing, we do 50k.' And you know, like, okay, so I think that premium is also relative.
Let's say anything that's 2x what you're currently doing might be your premium to you, right? So let's say, like, how can you feel, how can you start charging prices that are 2 or 3x what you're currently charging and how to get there. From a practical standpoint, I think it's really important to think about are they going to get at least 5x the return on their investment in some way because it's not just about throwing a number out into the wind, right? It's not just about creating a pretty design and having it out there; maybe you have to upskill yourself in SEO, maybe you have to upskill yourself in the way you think or familiarize yourself with e-commerce and then be able to charge more. I feel like in terms of charging more or charging premium, there's always an expectation attached to that, and it's not just about the doing; it's about the thinking; it's about adding so much more value in a way that's not always correlated with time; it's actually correlated with experience...
And then from the maybe like energetics or identity side, when you drop a number that's like 2x 3x what you used to, let's say you used to like 2000, and suddenly you've got this project it's going to be like, you know, 10,000, you know?
You try to say it on the discovery call, and you can't say it right. But if you can't say it on the call, you can't be confident in your number, they're going to feel it, and they're probably going to like, you know, try to barter you down or not take you seriously.
So what I think is really helpful is having somebody to practice mock calls with and feeling into saying the number because sometimes we don't feel safe saying the number, right?
Let's say you're saying, 'For clients like you and projects like these, is going to be 10,000 euros,' and for a lot of people, a they don't say it enough, because subconsciously in their body, it feels unsafe to say that number because they feel like they're going to be rejected, right? And they don't want to be rejected...
And so I think it's worth practicing and then the other side of that is just, feeling safe to receive a project of that amount, right, and feeling that abundance.
Practicing feeling safe in that and stretch it out to 100k, imagine this project was 100k, can you hold that, and then coming back down to 10k, it feels so much easier, and you're just kind of energetically doing weights.
So I learned this from one of our business mentors, imagine you go to a gym and you're like, okay, I want to lift 100 kgs, that's like saying I want to make 100k.
You haven't really done weights before, you're first time with a gym, you know, you go, and you're like, I'm gonna smash 100 kgs, but clearly you're absolutely not going to, and you will probably, like, you know, rip yourself apart.
Another example is people who win the lottery - they get a million, but they don't feel safe holding it, and so what happens is they just let it all go, and so the analogy of doing weights is you start with 10 kgs and you go 20, 30, 40, and every time you train your muscle, you train your body to hold hold that amount energetically because money in a way is energy, right, and most of us who especially if we've done, like, a nine to five job, we have a very consistent, we are always at like five, 10 kgs, right, we never really train for 50 or 60, and so in a way you have to stop training yourself, and the way sometimes I do is I just, like, meditate and I just feel into it.
I imagine it as like a ball and it grows and let's say you're at 10k, maybe you're here, or it's a hundred k feel like it's here, and then you kind of stretch out to how heavy that feels, and it does feel heavy, and then you snap back to where you are now, and you're like, oh, I feel like you can do it, and so it's just like recalibrating your body, your nervous system actually is the better word, it's like recalibrating your nervous system to hold a larger amount of money because it doesn't feel safe for most people to hold that much, and so we subconsciously actually reject opportunities to make more.
Talk to me specifically when it comes to like marketing and sales, how did you feel at the beginning and how has that changed over time as you've up-leveled in your pricing and gone on to more premium projects...
I hated marketing and sales so much, because it felt aggressive to tell people you should work with me, or it just felt really, like, maybe it was also my connotation with, like, the bro sales, like, sleazy sales and marketing, and then also everybody hating sales and marketing, you know, everyone's like, 'Urgh salesman,' or always feeling like I marketed to, and I was like, I just really don't want to add to that, right?
I was kind of hoping that if I did good work, people would just come to me.
I also started just looking to other people, like, how do they do... and trying to copy them. Thinking if it's working for them, it must be working for a reason, so let's just copy. And it always felt really misaligned to me. I would say it wasn't until this year that it started to finally feel aligned for me, and I stopped looking at what other people are doing.
Maybe the biggest shift in mindset for sales and marketing is that sales is service.
You're really selling to somebody who actually has a problem, and you want to solve that problem.
Another tip is don't try to convert, try to connect.
Oftentimes, we're writing sales copy or writing Instagram captions to convert people instead of connecting, and we think that we have to be really salesy, but really, what sales is all about is just connecting with a person, listening empathetically, right?
What is your problem?
Understanding their problem, and then trying to solve the problem.
And if you're not the person that's right to solve the problem, then you just redirect them somewhere else. I mean, I think in a way, if you rephrase sales, it's just helping people.
Now I love sales. I love hopping on sales calls, and I don't hop on the sales call feeling like I have to convert this person into a client. I'm just like, 'Oh, I'm just so honored that you feel like I can help you, and I will try to help you,' and then I just try to connect. It's great, and it feels very aligned with how I want to operate in this world and business as a female creative as well.
Okay, so you said at the beginning you were looking at other people. You were sort of like, 'Okay, well, I need to do my marketing the way that they're doing their marketing.' And then you realized at some point there was some other method. How do you do your marketing now in a way that actually feels like Emily?
Well, it just wasn't working, first of all, and I was trying to put a filter on everything that I was saying. Like, everything had to be perfect and well-written in that sense. Like, I had to sound professional, and I had to be in this particular way. I have to look beautiful.
And then, at some point in time, I was like, 'This is not working. I'm just gonna say and write whatever I want to write and let's just see what happens.'
So, I started writing about things that I actually wanted to write about. Things like mindset, things like, I don't know, life analogies, a little bit of spirituality woven into business as well. And I got so much amazing feedback. And I think people feel it when you're genuinely passionate and excited about something that you're writing. People feel it, and they feel connected to you. And that does so much. And so, I think from that standpoint, just letting myself write about the things I actually want to write about and not be so perfectionistic.
Just taking off that filter because that actually repels people.
(Paige:) Yeah, yeah, it's a funny story. We actually had one time someone copy my website, literally like word for word, for word, and got in touch to say “not cool”. And then I went back to that same website a few months later. And it was so much better because it was actually them. And they, from knowing, from being like, 'Oh no, you can't copy word for word,' and like every single thing, they then had to go back and actually write what they wanted to write. And it was genuinely so much better for their business. And we're like, 'Well, that's great.'
(Emily:) I also had when I first started, there were a few people I found really inspiring, and I loved the way that they were writing. I loved the way that they were doing their graphics. And so I very closely too inspiration, not exactly copying, but like doing a similar thing and sort of putting my own spin to it.
One person was like,
'Oh, I feel like you're mimicking my social media posts or just the way I'm doing things too closely.'
And I was like, 'Oh, that’s such a wake-up call to me. Maybe we are.'
And what is it that, you know, we actually want to post about?
Are we just doing this because it feels safe?
Okay, so making, let's say, 2K a month, and maybe I want to make 10K a month, for example, but I may be energetically rejecting this because I don't feel subconsciously safe to charge that amount of money. Tell me about how you would suggest someone work through that sort of step by step.
I think if you want to, if you're at 2K and you want to start charging 10K, to not take that leap immediately. Because if you're to the next proposal, you're gonna drop a 10K. It's like going from lifting 2KG weights to 100KG weights or something, right?
From a practical standpoint, I would recommend either hiring a business mentor or having somebody you can do mock sales calls with and just do a few of those sales calls. I would also recommend finding people who would be of that caliber of investing 10K into a website and genuinely asking them questions like,
'What do you value?'
You know,
'Why is the website even valuable to you?'
Because actually, for a lot of businesses who do millions, a website doesn't bring them the most traffic, not always, right? And so then, what is it that they actually want their website to do? What is the value there, and can you speak to that? Because it's very different than somebody who's starting off and it's a 2K website.
So, their entire value system is back to front.
And then, what would an ideal project look like for them?
Because let's say they're a CEO running a million-dollar company, and you want to charge 10K for this, they probably don't even want to be involved.
So, you might even want to change your entire process because 2K clients are like, 'I want to be involved at every touch point and note everything and have five feedback calls,' and the 10K clients are like,
'Just do it, talk to my team. I want zero involvement. I give you the go-ahead, I trust you.’
But to get to that trust, that lead time takes way longer.
You have to really prove yourself, you have to be really trustworthy. And I find bigger clients like that, they hire based on values, like similar value sets.
And if they like you as a person, can trust you as a person, and it helps that there's another mutual connection in there as well.
So, the way they hire is completely different from the way a 2K client would hire.
So, they totally agree, really get into that mindset, especially that, 'I don't even want to be involved, and you just do it.' It's like they have so many things going on that they actually are like, 'If they trust your portfolio and they're like, 'This is my inspiration, go make something,'
And you just have to not take it personally. It's not that they don't want to talk to you. But also, then if you really like having a lot of touch points, maybe they're not your clients.
Yeah, and that's okay to have maybe more small clients and a few bigger ones because they also come with their own sets of problems.
(Paige:) Yeah, yeah, reminds me of a story, actually. So, when I wanted to get into this master's degree, this is years and years ago, I wanted to get into a master's degree, and I wanted to get it on full ride. I wanted to get it in the US, which if you're an international student in the US is unbelievably expensive, like, so crazy. And so, I heard that there were these positions that you could get at universities that would then basically give you a full ride. And so, I realized I knew that the way you get things is to know people, but I didn't know anyone in the US, and I didn't know anyone at these schools I wanted to go to. So, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna find a way to get to know someone. Just because I don't know someone doesn't mean I can't solve that problem. That's a problem I can solve. So, I figured out who the person was who seemed to probably be the one to make the decision of which person to hire for this certain role at the university. And I checked through the entire website, read everything which I could on this degree, and then figured out, okay, what is not mentioned which I would like to know?
Because if I just ask questions, if I call up and get to know this person and ask questions which are already on the website, they're just gonna think, well, this person's wasting my time and clearly isn't that, you know, doesn't have very good attention to detail or anything.
So I went on the website, read literally everything I could about this degree and everything, and then I wrote out questions of what I would like to know, but that wasn't already some sort of information online or something I could find myself. And then emailed, asked to do a call to talk about the degree program. And then just literally on my call, my goal wasn’t really to ask questions - ùy goal was probably even more just to shoot the breeze and get to know this person and ask about their kids and their family and their life and everything and try to find a connection point with them.
And I got the position, I got a degree on full ride, I got to know someone because I didn't know anyone, but I was like, "Okay, this is the way that I'm going to get this, to set myself apart."
So, I need to get to know this person who's making the decision. So, that's what I did.
(Emily:) Well, actually, you touched on a really good point that I missed out earlier, which is asking questions. I think, say, in a sales call position, if you're working with somebody and you want to ask a premium package for that, a lot of times people feel the need to justify why they're worth 10K for example, and they start blabbing on about all these things, how amazing the processes are, how much code they know, or trying to justify it or not show off, but like, yeah, fluff themselves up.
And I think sometimes what actually works as the opposite is not talking so much about yourself, just asking questions and being genuinely curious about them and their business and what their goals are and get them almost to sell themselves to you, why they want to work with you. And I think, yeah, and then finding that connection point.
So, at the end of the day, I think good sales is actually just asking good questions, not generic questions, like really good questions.
Let's talk on a practical side again, about what you learned about working with clients and refinement rounds and boundaries. What do you suggest when it comes to keeping those projects streamlined and on track?
I think this is actually so common, and I think also every designer feels like they failed to some extent when the project doesn't meet the deadline or the timeline or something goes wrong, but we're dealing with humans, so something's always about to go wrong, right?
Life happens.
And when it comes to refinement rounds and client boundaries, what I found is most clients, you can trust them. I think there's this mutual respect for each other's time. And so, it's very common at the start to feel like, "Oh, I trust them, they trust me. We don't need a contract. We don't need to be so nitty-gritty about what a refinement round is. They'll know. They'll know."
And that's fine when you're working with, like, 2K clients, 3K clients. When you start going past, I think the 5K marks, 6K mark, and especially the 10K mark, with the higher investment comes higher expectations and higher entitlement to your time. And you'll probably find that they will feel very entitled to extra rounds of refinements, maybe being a little bit more pushy as well.
Pst… Paige here! I recommend a contract for even the lowest-ticket projects!
And I think this is then when having a contract in place is really, really important.
What we've created is just one round of refinement, we send them a feedback form, and the person who's in charge of the project, who approves it, fills it out, does loom videos all the different way they can send feedback to us google docs and whatnot and when they submit it that's it we're not going to be doing any extra refinements that are not mentioned in that form.
But I also realized that that list can be quite extensive and that list could actually take days to do and so I then limited it to four hours only on that list and for them to prioritize the top priorities of their refinement feedback and if it goes over then we can talk about adding on extra studio hours adding on an extra studio day.
But that way it actually gets them to think about what is the most top priority here that i actually need changed because sometimes people are like
oh let's try this and they're like oh jokes i don't want that anymore and they're kind of just wasting your time because they have unlimited or they feel like they have unlimited feedback rounds
so i think in a way actually putting constraints on it it's actually beneficial for everybody because then they're more like likely to prioritize and you're more likely to like get it done and then the entire project is more likely to be launched into the world a lot faster.
Now one point which Emily made which i think is so true is that your design work also needs to get to the place where it looks high end in order to charge those high end prices it's not all just about the mindset and practicing saying that'll be 10k please.
Now i recently actually did a video where i did a makeover on a DIY website to show you what goes into really great design so watch this video next and pay close attention to the design changes that i'm making and why when you can manage this sort of thing yourself then you'll be well on your way to those 10k projects!